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I like how sometimes you get the option of a +3 post but it happens that I'm about to post something mediocre at that time and don't want to waste +3 on it. Then I can either withdraw (post less) or waste it on that post. Even when I use post whenever, the +3 is not maintained. Is it possible to save +3 for later?
Yes. I don't like arbitrary carrots and sticks competing in the fair market of ideas and posts.
We have enough users to not need meddling. Meddling and secret algos make people suspicious.
I don't like bonus points - especially bonus points that stick around after the incentive is unnecessary yet still bias the back-archive - especially on topical matters, reflecting higher on posts that haven't actually earned it, and not necessarily better.
But I also have users saying there isn't enough comments. Ultimately what it comes down to is that we have a higher post rate than comment rate. As more users came on the issue reduced but not completely because while new users do comment they also post. Not that we want to discourage posting for sure. But it does mean the post / comment ratio didn't fully resolve and you have to get to an even higher level of users before it does on its own.
It is a fair market because everyone has access to the same rules. If anything it helps posts that are really worthwhile because if something is really special then it doesn't take much effort to make three comments on things (2 minutes), but then it has a headstart beating junk news sites that another user might post 10 of a day. Just the thought of taking an extra step is a valid signal that it's worth more.
It's like saying Halo isn't a fair game because every gun doesn't do the same DPS. Or complaining that someone can do more damage with a move combo in Smash. That's hella not fair. All buttons should do the same damage no matter the order. That would be more fair. The fact that the move combo happens to also help the site get through the next growth phase faster is good.
I think there is a concept that you might align with. Which is the idea of high effort users getting ahead of low effort link shotgunning. In either case if someone takes the effort their posts will get an advantage. And it's the posts that people think are worth the effort that we want to highlight. All it is is three comments. If you think your post is worth making three comments for to do well then I want it to do well. Because that's a gut punch if you did care that much about that post and it went nowhere. That's what I want to guard against. So now you get two benefits to prevent that. One is that with a little more effort it's virtually guarenteed it goes somewhere unless it's truly awful, and now people are more incentivized to comment on the post for the sake of their own posts.
I know people mostly comment simply because they want to comment. This is true. But they also like to post. They like doing both. It just really helps the site if they do the one thing at a little higher ratio than the other. It's the curse of all small reddit alternatives that people naturally don't hit the golden ratio naturally until the pop gets a lot bigger. So I need some kind of lever to pull. Maybe multiple so I can make sure no one level is pulled too hard. Maybe I need more levers so I can pull each of them softer.
Maybe another lever is simply asking: Hey guys. If you see a post in the top five with zero comments, be a lad and comment on it. It really is a top thing to do.
It would be really awesome if I made it so one of the comments needs to be a first comment. That would make the +3 more rare (which is more correct for a +3), and it would better align with the goal. That might actually do the trick.
Different issue.
What does this mean? What is the objective? Why?
This is not yet clear and seems like an arbitrary goal until explained.
Yes, same treatment. I don't doubt you apply it to everyone equally.
But when you tweak it the system updates and/or the algo changes so not all posts get the same treatment.
It's great folks may tweak their personal settings to affect what they view. But having points messed with doesn't seem right.
If you want to add secret weights to elevate new posts and comments in your backend (secret) algo, fine - same difference to the user experience - but why mess with the vote numbers when they are not real votes? Algos exist for better or worse but authentic stats matter.
I don't do games so gamer examples are lost on me.
This is not a new conundrum. Some folks post garbage, some quality, some a mix, and some rarely. Some folks can draft up a grand essay that gets outshone by a dozen stupid memes. Quality is never measured with a single vote for quantity. That's why I tried to improve the measures with the 5x5 MetaVote™ with "meh" in the center and extreme corners with "wise" "daft" "fun" "loathe", each with 3 steps between each other. Halfway between "wise" and "fun" is a mix of both "witty".
I hate to suggest yet another feature, especially a short-term one that would be pointless once enough folks joined. But maybe there's a way to have a mega-post-user self-rank their posts for the day - instead of everyone having to do it. I don't know how you'd do it, but I would certainly rank my Corbett posts higher than my meme or music posts - only because resistance has greater meaning and importance to me. I want to be aware of stuff but so many "news" and "culture wars" (gender, race, corruption, fairness, lawfare, etc.) seems like timesucks too. I don't need to know of every rape or corrupt politician. If anything, with all these different interests, it seems to me that metatags would be more useful than ever. And even if some lazy posters didn't tag their shit, others could for them. Strong categorization could be useful in soooo many ways. Again, this could be easily achieved with a 5x5 MetaVote™ with 25 first level options (ask me about second level). One of these years I should animate a video to illustrate.
Post Whenever still doesn't work. I loaded it up, haven't posted much for ages, and my stuff is still backed up. Why bother putting more in? It used to post one every 3-4 hours. That would be good - a consistent trickle is better than none. I have a bunch of stuff I'd like to load up and have delivered over time but I have no controls on how it trickles. The rules/algo/recipe/how it works is still unclear. Until we know how to use the tool it's unreliable.
At a certain point, fiddling with things endlessly doesn't amount to any significant difference. No one will ever be perfectly happy. IMO, time/energy is better spent focused on well-known missing features than self-fiddling.
Another new idea: Grant each user 12 bonus points per day distributed over all their posts, not just the first post, and bonus does not mess with the vote numbers. If they post 2 each gets 6 boost. If they post 3 each gets 4 boost. The previous day's boosts diminish by half, so no bonus points by day 4. Maybe less if they post a lot every day. Maybe a weekly average is worth weighing in. "Bonus points" is a terrible name, as is "post distri-booster".
Good to know. This helps against some of what I mentioned above. I fear there may be folks that might weaponize this, but I suspect that by the time they infest the Goat will be bigger.
It occurs to me that rather than come up with some witty bit or try to engage in some banter, I could just comment-bomb with a single qualitative word that might have been on the MetaVote™ grid.
You mentioned this pop before. What does that mean?
I don't know what the levers are. I'm not against them. But please don't let them tamper with the visible vote score. Keep the levers in the algo and keep the votes pure.
It might be worth drafting up a clear overview (as concise as possible but as long as necessary) to keep everyone in the loop, now and future users, to explain the dilemmas concisely, improvement proposals, algos how and why, unsolved problems, etc. Might even need a pre-discussion or few (like this one) to figure out what even needs to be covered.
I don't understand.
I wish I had more time and could help more. I don't know code. I don't mean to be critical. I hope these words and ideas help. Tapping concrete to hang stuff at the new studio and prepping for the WEFreedom NYE bash is sucking all my time.